The Dead Can't Sue

Yes, the undercurrent tragically killed our 17th Prime Minister, but were his days in office already numbered? Leigh argues that Holt was sinking (politically) before he died. So how did the man whose brief tenure as PM included the 1967 Referendum and the start of dismantling the White Australia Policy lose his audience? We tell you how we think it all went down and give you the final say on the conspiracies that swirl around his disappearance. Plus, charisma bomb Gough Whitlam makes an appearance thereby flustering Holt and all of us. SOURCES 'Prime Minister Harold Holt's Briefcase' National Archives M4298,1 'New Prime Minister and His Wife' Australian Women's Weekly Feb 2 1966 Hancock, Ian (2026). 'Harold Edward Hold' in Australia's Prime Ministers edited by Michelle Grattan (New Holland Publishers) Walker, Ross (2022). Harold Holt: Always One Step Further (Latobe University Press) Frame, Tom (2005). The Life and Death of Harold Holt (Allen and Unwin) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Producer: Hannah Jose Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Video Producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

It's fair to say for a lot of Australians, Harold Holt has become more of a meme than a man, let alone Australia's 17th Prime Minister. Yes, he drowned in mysterious circumstances and it's weird there's a pool named after him, but Leigh is more fixated on the less well-known quirks of our dear Harry. For example, did his pretty privilege charm Canberra? Where did his high school nickname 'puss' come from? How did his ex-girlfriend end up marrying his father? And were Zara Holt's kids — born while she was married to another man — actually Harold's? SOURCES 'Prime Minister Harold Holt's Briefcase' National Archives M4298,1 'New Prime Minister and His Wife' Australian Women's Weekly Feb 2 1966 'Speeches by Harold Holt' PM Transcripts: Australian Government, Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet Hancock, Ian (2026). 'Harold Edward Hold' in Australia's Prime Ministers edited by Michelle Grattan (New Holland Publishers) Walker, Ross (2022). Harold Holt: Always One Step Further (Latobe University Press) Frame, Tom (2005). The Life and Death of Harold Holt (Allen and Unwin) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Producer: Hannah Jose Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Video Producer: Christian Harimanow Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Perhaps you're familiar with the phrase "Buckley's chance!". Well, it's thought that it originates from William Buckley, a man who defied all odds to escape his fate as a convict. Buckley was a brickie from Northern England who ends up being adopted by the Wathaurong people in 1800s Victoria. Leigh investigates the legend of Buckley’s survival, what the Wathaurong had to gain from him, and how things finally came to a head. Psst - he also debunks a few famous convict myths we love to tell. SOURCES Reminiscences of James Buckley who lived for thirty years among the Wallawarro or Watourong tribes at Geelong Port Phillip, communicated by him to George Langhorne, 1837 (State Library of Victoria, Manuscripts Collection) Bonwick, James (1856). William Buckley: the wild white man, and his Port Phillip black friends, (Melbourne) Morgan, John (1856). The life and adventures of William Buckley: thirty-two years a wanderer amongst the Aborigines (Melbourne) Flannery, Tim (ed) (2017). The Life and Adventures of William Buckley (Melbourne: Text Publishing) Tipping, Marjorie (1988). Convicts Unbound (Melbourne: Viking O’Neill) McKinnon, Crystal and McLisky, Clare (2022). “Settler Colonial Emotions... in the William Buckley Story” in The Routledge History of Emotions Tudehope, CM (1962). “William Buckley” in Victorian Historical Magazine,1962 Tipping, Marjorie (2006). William Buckley (1780–1856), Australian Dictionary of Biography Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound Engineering: Ross Richardson

Chopper loses his ears but gains an unexpectedly popular literary career, after becoming (sort of) pen pals with crime writer John Silvester. This week, we finish the Chopper tale, figuring out how Chopper managed to reinvent himself from hardened crim to comedian, artist, rapper and… children's book author. Warning: This episode discusses intimate partner violence, racism, transphobia, homophobia and misogyny. SOURCES Shand, Adam (2025). The Real Chopper: The Man Behind the Legend, Inside and Out. Penguin Books Mayr, Andrea. "Chopper: From the inside: Discourses of the 'celebrity' criminal Mark Brandon Read." Language and Literature 21.3 (2012): 260-273. Read, Mark Brandon (1991). Chopper: From the inside. Floradale Productions. Oakes, L. "Guess who's coming in from the cold? An interview with Mark 'Chopper' Read." Psychotherapy in Australia 8.1 (2001): 30-33. Read, Mark Brandon (2002). Hooky the cripple: The grim tale of a hunchback who triumphs (A. Cullen, Illus.). Pluto Press Australia. Cartwright, Garth (2013). Guardian Obituary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/09/mark-chopper-read-obituary Ubaldi, Simone. "Serial thriller." Monthly, The Nov 2013 (2013): 18-19. Jackson, Rochelle (2011). Partners and Crime. Crows Nest, N.S.W: Allen & Unwin (see chapter by Mary-Anne Hodge). Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound Engineering: Brendan O'Neill

Mark Brandon ‘Chopper’ Read (1954-2013) was a notorious Melbourne underworld figure who admitted to murdering four people, right before he died. But as Alecia and Leigh soon discover, he was also a massive liar. Alecia and Leigh wade through the lies to try to understand how does one become Chopper? How does he get that nickname and that reputation? Featuring failure and mediocrity, many institutions (mental, military, religious and penal), Alecia’s flawless Chopper impression, Dr Freud, and yes, some grizzly moments of violence. SOURCES Shand, Adam (2025). The Real Chopper: The Man Behind the Legend, Inside and Out. Penguin Books Mayr, Andrea. "Chopper: From the inside: Discourses of the ‘celebrity’ criminal Mark Brandon Read." Language and Literature 21.3 (2012): 260-273. Read, Mark Brandon (1991). Chopper: From the inside. Floradale Productions. Oakes, L. "Guess who's coming in from the cold? An interview with Mark 'Chopper' Read." Psychotherapy in Australia 8.1 (2001): 30-33. Read, Mark Brandon (2002). Hooky the cripple: The grim tale of a hunchback who triumphs (A. Cullen, Illus.). Pluto Press Australia. Cartwright, Garth (2013). Guardian Obituary: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/09/mark-chopper-read-obituary Ubaldi, Simone. "Serial thriller." Monthly, The Nov 2013 (2013): 18-19. Jackson, Rochelle (2011). Partners and Crime. Crows Nest, N.S.W: Allen & Unwin (see chapter by Mary-Anne Hodge). Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound Engineering: Brendan O’Neill

Tilly Devine (1900-1970) was a founding mother of Sydney's underbelly, and, as NSW police commissioner Norman Allan simply said: "She was a villain, but who am I to judge her?" Luckily Leigh and Alecia love to judge. Beyond the rivals, razor blades and racketeering, they ask: Was Tilly the original girl (mob) boss? Why did she shoot her fiancé a few months before their wedding? (Yes, the marriage still went ahead.) And while we're here, what drives our national fixation with outlaws like Tilly? Show sources: Matilda Mary (Tilly) Devine (1900–1970), Daily Mirror Sydney, 24 November 1970, p 9 Kay Saunders, Notorious Australian Women (ABC Books, 2013) Nancy Cushing 'The Long History of Australian Gangs' in A History of Crime in Australia (Routledge, 2023) Judith Allen, 'Devine, Matilda Mary (Tilly) (1900–1970)', Australian Dictionary of Biography, National Centre of Biography, Australian National University Anna Clark, Gabrielle Kemmis and Tamson Pietsch, My Darlinghurst (NewSouth, 1st edn, 2024) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves Sound engineering: Brendan O'Neill

Alecia and Leigh sail into the muddy waters of naval history, exploring the key role Indigenous explorer Bungaree played in Matthew Flinders circumnavigation of Australia. Oh, and Flinders's undying love for his cat, Trim.

Matthew Flinders (1774-1814) is best known as the first white guy to circumnavigate (and name!) Australia. But could he perhaps also have been circumnavigating the towering physique of ship surgeon George Bass? Alecia and Leigh do a literal reading of a seemingly steamy letter, written by Flinders to Bass in 1800, and a (potentially) queer reading of the relationship between these chaps with maps. By the end of this two-parter, you won't look at these men the same way. Sources: The Life of Matthew Flinders by Miriam Estensen (2002) Matthew Flinders: The Man Behind the Map by Gillian Dooley (2022) The Life of Captain Matthew Flinders by Ernest Scott (2023) My Own Destroyer: A Biography of Matthew Flinders, Explorer and Navigator by Sidney John Baker (1962) Matthew Flinders, Maritime Explorer of Australia by Kenneth Morgan (2016) Between Sentiment and Sea: The Meaning of Friendship in the Letters of Matthew Flinders by Alecia Simmonds in The Great Circle 38.2 (2016) Friendship, Imperial Violence and the Law of Nations: The Case of Late-Eighteenth Century British Oceania by Alecia Simmonds in The Journal of Imperial and Commonwealth History 42.4 (2014) Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn Theme: Martin Peralta Artwork: Gabriel Virata-Alves

Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher are historians, which means they are uniquely qualified to gossip about the dead. They're asking big, nosy questions about the lives of the people who shaped or misshaped Australia, like … Who really chopped off Chopper's ears? Why did they name a swimming pool after the Prime Minister who drowned? And, did our very own Dame Nellie Melba have a mean streak? While each person's history is unique, the one thing they have in common is that they are dead, so conveniently, they can't sue. Episodes dropping weekly from Tuesday, 30 June on ABC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Alecia Simmonds and Leigh Boucher Supervising Producer: Hannah Reich Development Producer: Beverley Wang Executive Producers: Clare Rawlinson and Eric George Head of ABC Audio on Demand: Jessica Radburn